Mary Beard on SPQR, Ancient Rome and the Migrant Crisis. The classicist Mary Beard may be the only writer who could get away with the pithy first line of her new book Ancient Rome is important. Coming from a less preeminent figure, it might seem utterly, boringly obvious. But coming from her, it serves as an assertive reminder Pay attention to this chunk of history its questions and problems are still playing out today. Beards new book is SPQR, that is, Senatus Populusque Romanus, or The Senate and People of Rome, an abbreviation that still emblazons trash cans and manhole covers in the city today. The volume ranges from Romes earliest days to Emperor Caracallas decision in 2. C. E. to extend citizenship to all the free inhabitants of its borders, some 3. Throughout the centuries that she examines, Beard is careful to always explain where the version of the story that were familiar with is not true to history for instance, Julius Caesar never said Et tu, Brute and where we simply dont know enough about events to paint a full picture of their details. But what she does share is a compelling vision of a society that is very like our own and, in other ways, completely unrecognizable. TIME caught up with to Beard to discuss how reading about Rome can help change our thinking on contemporary issues. TIME Youve said that writing this book came out of being in your late middle age. Spqr Game' title='Spqr Game' />What do you mean by that Beard Its like when people ask you how long did it take to write the answer is either 1. What you see in a book like this is the experience of teaching undergraduates. People say, But undergraduates arent typical readers, theyre specialists, theyre not like the general reader. Well, actually, theyre not so very different. You get to know through the hard way what kind of thing works with an undergraduate, where suddenly they go, Ah, so thats what it is. You write that there arent actual lessons we can learn from Rome, but certainly there are resonances. What resonances do you see in the large scale granting of citizenship and the massive migration of slaves across RomeIts a particularly edgy moment to be looking at mass movements of people. The Romans would not have understood the concept of an illegal migrant. SNEEDLESPQR8The 8th episode of SPQR series made by SNEEDLE. SPQR Episode1 Duration 925. GAME 3,355 views. SPQR Episode 3. That would have been baffling to them. They would have been horrified that some of the worst bits of whats going on in the crisis over migration is happening in what was the Roman empire. Most of it is happening in what was the Roman empire. TIME Youve said that writing this book came out of being in your late middle age. What do you mean by that Beard Its like when people ask you how long did it. Local time 207 AM aedt 26 November 2017 Membership 791,234 registered members 11,122 visited in past 24 hrs 250 members online now 431 guests visiting now. And actually the migrants are coming from parts of the Roman empire to other bits of what was the Roman empire. As I was slightly hinting, why Rome would have found that slightly oddand they could be as xenophobic as anybody, the fact that Romans extend citizenship doesnt mean that they were all kind of lovey, touchy feely. That is what they did, but they could also say, Well, I dont like all those bloody Syrians in town. But the underpinning of Rome in its foundation myths is as a place of asylum Aeneas is a war refugee, Romulus has no citizens, so he says, Come on, everybodyRunaways, criminals, ex slaves, you just come here, this is an asylum If you live in a culture with that as its founding mythology, then I suspect you think differently. This is where you kind of cant learn from it, just thinking about Rome in those terms, thinking, They have defined this entirely differently from us, makes you look at your own assumptions differently. It doesnt mean that you say, Oh, I know, lets do it like the Romans did then. Because thats not the point. There is a very journalistic desire toand I work a bit in journalism toobut to have a column of 1. Romans can teach us about the current crisis, and I say, I dont think they can teach us anything about the current crisisbut they can teach us to think harder about it. But that doesnt make such good journalistic copy. You note that there are so many events in Roman history where we really dont know how exactly it all went down. What moment do you most wish you could go back and observe as a fly on the wall Theres too many Id quite like to be in Caligulas court. Living in the back room, somewhere, and just being able to observe. Most of the time one thinks it would be safer not to be there. Would I really want to see the assassination of Julius Caesar Im not sure that I would. I think it could have been intensely boring in the Senate when Cicero was talking to Catiline. Id love to know if Nero really did murder his mum. Theres a wonderful moment in Tacitus when he tries to murder his mum by collapsing boat, and he sends her out and the boat collapses, but shes a game old bird and she swims to shore, so it doesnt work. Id like to see that. But is there a single moment where being there would change your view of anything No. Who do you think is the most unfairly scapegoated figure in history I think every bad Roman emperor, probably. I wouldnt know if they were nice or nasty, but what is absolutely clear is we cant know, because as I said somewhere in the book, in this monarchywhich effectively it isthe lasting reputation of the individual emperor was often determined by his successors. If you die in your bed and your son succeeds you, you will have a good reputation. If you are assassinated, the next regime damns you. We cannot now tell whether the emperor was assassinated because he was bad, or whether because he was assassinated, he had to be portrayed as bad. From the modern world, we know some bad men get assassinated and some good men. Structural Crack Repair Pool there. With someone like Nero, we know that after Neros forced suicide, effectively, there were false Neros who appeared, saying Im Nero Now, it seems very unlikely that anybody should impersonate an emperor who is universally loathed. And even the descriptions of the assassination of Caligula suggest that the people were upset at the emperor being assassinated. Part of that is a terribly snobbish version, actuallyWe elite knew what a rotter he was. The poor old poor, they didnt understand, they wept and wailed. Theres too many variables in there. We all need to think hard about what it would be like to tell the story differently. Your book is sympathetic to those for whom we have a record of someone criticizing them, but no record of their defensefor instance, Clodia, whos accused of being so promiscuous. How do you think that relates to today, when anyone can be maligned on the Internet because everyone has a voice, but at the same time, anyone can fight back I think some people dont fight back. I used to think that the British press were particularly awful to Cherie Blair. I think Blairs foreign policy was a complete disaster, but the British press, when they wanted to explain why Blair took unexpected moves, they did create Cherie as the power behind the throne. You know, Tony did this because Cherie couldnt stand Gordon Brown. She was in a position, I think, where she couldnt answer back, and that is a bit like some of these people from the past, when you just have to say, Look, hang on a minute, lets see it from their point of view. It doesnt mean you then accept that, but it is quite important to try to see it from their point of view. If you had to pick a time and place in the past to live in, which would it be I would not pick any.